[LAB1]: NOT YET FULLY
OPERATIVE
(Updated in March 2001)
Examples of possible solutions
[1) mp3]
[2) Text]
[3) Text]
[4) image]
[5) file]
1) [mp3] mp3 searching
Elementary inference skills ('few elements' searching) & crap-sites
elimination basics
Aqua Barbie
[An example of possible solution]
For Mp3s' there's many different ways of finding them.
You could just go to Napster, but I figure you want us to try it
out on the web, which makes it a bit harder.
First thing wouldc be to figure out what search engine.
Lets try good old Google. We could also use a specialized
engines (à la Geocities), though.
Next is the search string. Just to start out, I have never heard
of the song nor of the group.
1)+"Aqua Barbie" +mp3
recieved many pages + w/ barbie girl as the title so...
2)+"Aqua Barbie" +mp3 -girl zip
used -girl to get rid or the barbie "girl" part then remembered
that alot of times on the web they place mp3 files in zip format!
Bingo! From the many thousand (1) I narrowed it down to about 40 (2)
The first few look like the typical useless "list pages" so just keep
looking... looks like from the 7th site downwards could hold some signal.
There it is right there (in zip format nevertheless)
First Test: clues...Aqua Barbie, mp3
Solution: Google.com
+"Aqua Barbie" +mp3 -girl zip
http://members.nbci.com/abi98nkg/abi98.html
*** isn't that a Geocities-type web site farm? "NBCI" ;)
No, it's a concoction of xoom and snap
*** of course, if your in a hurry, NAPSTER (for any mp3)
~Veliti~
2) [Text] A very easy introduction to "referenced" text searching & search engines "oddnesses"
Main search engines quickfinding
"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius auro,
At nunc barbaria est grandis habere nihil"
See also [hump_32.htm]:
Worms, angles and search engines quirks,
by Humphrey P., February 2001
[An example of possible solution]
~Veliti~'s approach, slightly edited by fravia+
I know the first two tests are quite easy; so I hesitated
to write this but I figured out that if I write something then
maybe others would write too. The second Quest's Clue:
"Ingenium quondam fuerat pretiosius nuro
At nunc barbaria est grandis haber nihil"
Well the first engine to use when searching for text should be
Raging, shouldn't it?
So off to raging I went.
Now, when searching for a quote: should we use the
entire quote or just fragments of it? Well for this
search we can start with just fragments.
First Fragment: +"Ingenium quondam" Gives me 1 page :)
It's a "fisherman" page at www.grenadines.net/carriacou/johnsmithhomepage.htm :(
Well before we give up, lets try a different variation!
Second Fragment: +"fuerat pretiosius" Gives me 2 pages :)
The first one seems to be that same "fisherman" page.
I wonder why?? THIS IS A LAB so we should figure out why it keeps appearing.
It doesn't seem to have anything to do with what we are looking for
(of course I checked the source code).
Probably just the "messed up" way engines do sort things. But why does this happen?
Is it possible that these words have been previously on those pages and now disappeared?
It
seems highly unlikely given the content of the page, but let's see:
if so these words might have been there when Google, with its glorious cache, catalogued them.
Let's see:
http://www.google.com/search?num=30&meta=hl%3D%26lr%3D&q=%2B%22Ingenium+quondam%22
Woha! I was wrong! Google is definitely MUCH better than raging for this specific
snippet example!
Ok, next time I'll start by Google when searching snippets. (After all for +"Ingenium
quondam" Altavista & Raging give only 1 result,
Hotbot and Fast give 6 results each, but google gives 12 different results!).
Anyway let's keep on track! I was investigating Google's cache to see if we can find
an older copy of this strange Fisherman page:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:www.grenadines.net/carriacou/johnsmithhomepage.htm
Nope, it must be a raging quirck then. Or maybe google re-indexed its cache recently,
after those world were taken off the source code... unlikely... Is there any other
reason for Raging indexing that page that doesn't have a single latin word in it?
I wonder how anyone would possibly ever find that nice man "fisherman" page.
(unless they were specifically looking for it!)
Anyways where were we? The second page in Raging seems to carry very strong signal.
http://www.kulichki.com:8104/~risunok/literatu/antique/ovid_amor3.html
Note to any real ~Seeker~ out there. Be nice to those that learn! Please!
Even with these easy tests: take some time and show us how you went about
on your own search, so we can learn the many different "real life" approaches that
seekers take when looking for (and finding) there targets.
~Veliti~
3) [Text] Easy introduction to "plagiarism" seeking
"The secret of the many words" searching
"The professional industry standard remains Adobe Photoshop (version 5 is now available),
a full-featured image editing application. However, if you work on a PC, you may want to
try Paint Shop Pro, which has some of the same features for a fraction of the cost"
4) [Images] Image seeking elementary lores. (Note the
filename... :-)
Iefaf's solution... (January 2001)
Start chrono: 10:21:03.329
=
Lets start with the clues given by the pic as to collect relevant keywords.
Obviously this is a Russian naval decoration with an emblasoned 300 or maybe a cyrillic word.
Possible keywords and/or synonyms:
- russian, soviet
- navy, fleet, submarine, submarine fleet
- decoration, medal, badge, pin
- 300
Usually I sart a search with alltheweb.
First search:
Keywords: russian+navy+decoration
http://www.bos2.alltheweb.com/cgi-bin/advsearch?terms=3&type=any&query=russian+navy+decoration&exec=FAST+Search&lang=any
7400687 documents found - 0.336 seconds search time
Too many.
Second search
Keywords: russian+navy+decoration must contain 300 in the text
http://www.bos2.alltheweb.com/cgi-bin/advsearch?terms=3&type=any&query=russian+navy+decoration&exec=FAST+Search&lang=any&enco=iso-8859-1&A1=%2B&B1=300&C1=&A2=%2B&B2=&C2=&A3=-&B3=&C3=&dincl=&dexcl=&hits=10&nooc=on
541632 documents found - 0.41 seconds search time
Still too many.
Another approach is in order. On the WWW most websites are in English.
To reduce the hits, lets try a new search in another language. In this case: French.
Third search
Keywords: décorations+russes
http://www.bos2.alltheweb.com/cgi-bin/advsearch?terms=3&type=phrase&query=d%E9corations+russes&exec=FAST+Search&lang=any
4 documents found - 0.022 seconds search time
Good!
The "Bibliographie sur la phaleristique russe" seems promising.
It has a link page to russie/embleme/html/stg/liens.htm It's well organised, with a subdivision to Soviet Russia from 1917-1991. Lets see there:
1- The Soviet Military Awards Page
members.xoom.com/abates/
2- Réunions des musées russes
www.museum.ru
3- Collectrussia
www.collectrussia.com
4- Soviet Orders & Medals Links
members.aol.com/sovietuk/links.htm
5- Historicalresearch
www.historicalresearch.com/
6- Orders and Medals of the USSR
http://www.acadiacom.net/adimag/
Link 1,2 did not give good quick results.
Link 4 points to another links list. The Soviet Militaria Site catch my attention because there is a Navy and Marines Badges page (/badges.html#NAVY) with a slightly different picture of the badge.
Bingo?
http://pweb.netcom.com/~merezhko/scans/300dives.jpg
=
Chrono: 11:16:44.877
=
Link 3, a commercial one, was followed after discovering the value of "300". There is a pic identical to 183-2-01.jpg but with a different background and another name.
http://www.collectrussia.com/images/300navy.jpg
=
Stop chrono: 11:21:43.164
===========================
1.How easy (or difficult) was it to figure out the correct approach?
Surprisingly easy. I have tried 2/3 times some time ago using the file name(183-2-01.jpg) approach without any results.
2.Was the formulation adequate to help you plan your search?
No.
3.Which search-approaches and strategies did you choose?
First take the clues from the image itself. Second, use keywords in a language other than English.
4.Did you use any "classical" search engine? If so which ones?
Alltheweb
5.Did you use any "special" search engine? If so which ones?
-
6.How many results did you retrieve?
First 7.400.687 then 4.
7.What proportion of the results were relevant to your perceived information requirements?
One.
8.How current were the results? How many 404s?
The first good pointer was recently updated. No 404.
9.Was the amount of detail displayed with the results enough to allow you tho evaluate?
Yes, because the search was related to a narrow field: russian naval decoration.
10.Was the order in which the results were displayed evident or apparently illogical?
Logical.
11.What other features contribute to (or detract from) the utility of the tools and approaches you choosed?
I had a low level of concentration, as the kids were playing hide and seek all over the place. The last pic was found while 2 kids hiding right at my feet.
12.Did you time your query?
Total search time: 01:00:40
Summary
The specific 183-2-01.jpg was not found. The search was cancelled when 2
similar badges were found, and after I discover the why and when there it was
minted.
(ie)faf
Jeff's solution... (March 2001)
A great work by Jeff. Finding unknown images is far from being easy, as
[An Argy's
essay] will show you, yet Jeff has
shot down his quarry in a very quick and effective way...
DO NOT READ THIS POST UNLESS YOU HAVE FOUND THE LAB1 IMAGE:
~
Really!
it would be a pity if you read the solution
BEFORE having had your own go at it
here
you would regret it afterwards
you don't believe me? Scroll down...
~
Jeff's solution... (March 2001)
...continued from my postings at The Seekers messageboard
(note: i didn't post this afterall ---I'm not sure if its a secret thing
--- or if its suppossed to be OPEN to a person or group effort so I
won't post till I find out)
so as you can see my search began looking for other pins that might
have some of the same symbols on them---instead of trying to find the exact
pin from Lab1--- had i stumbled on it all the better (but I wouldn't
have learned much)--- after I realizeed my mistake in thinking these
were WINGS under the single STAR and finding a match of this particular
symbol at: a similar pin
it wasn't but a few more moments looking at this sites additional links
that I saw the Blue X on white background Flag
found the flag
so ok...I have probably identified the flag (but not its meaning), the
Country (Russia), and which unit of military (Submarine) that this (pin)
probably belongs too by looking at other similar pins...
lab1 additional
having now gathered some more keywords
google
I search for:
Russian Submarine Pins
many returns
one catches my eye
Russian Island: Gifts, Collectibles, Jewelry, Antique, ...
... medals Soviet badges Soviet pins Russian streamers Soviet ... era
Red October Soviet Submarine
Order of the Red ... Lenin Stalin Traditional Russian folk dolls Unique
...
www.russianisland.com/ - 21k - Cached - Similar pages
Russian island
click click...scroll scroll...looking thru list to see what jumps out
at
me...
now this one looks familiar eh? I see nothing on PINS but I see a link
to 'badges'--- I was wonderin' why that 'badges' reference was there
from ~M Scuba diving post...I figured I'd keep my eye pealed for that
word in case it was an additional humph clue...I am wondering now
though
weather I would have clicked on this link if i had not been focused in
on trying to unravel that scuba diving message...if it had the word PIN
in it I would have for sure...but now I am interested in what IS a
soviet badge?...
Russian
Soviet USSR Military Badges
SPECIAL
We will sell any badge on that site 10% lower than any of our reputable
competitors. Please give us URL where you found the lower price and we
will adjust our bill accordingly.
hummmm... no search engine here ---but these certainly look like
'pins'!!! ---so a badge is similar to a pin---might have to look up
what
the difference is between the two--- but I can add 'badges' to my list
of keywords now for sure!~
so there are many images here and I am gona have to look thru many
pages
it would seem...whats this? yer kidding me right? page 7 link
yahoo.wow-yippeeKYE-Aye
don't
click here if you are still searching for it
Note: whats the name of that FILE.... right click...View IMAGE (name)
yaba-daba-doo.jpg ??? yeppers....
...183-2-01.jpg
RUSSIAN SUBMARINE BADGE - 300 YEARS OF RUSSIAN FLEET $15.00
more info
RUSSIAN SUBMARINE BADGE - 300 YEARS OF RUSSIAN FLEET
$15.00
This Russian official submarine badge made out of brass and
enamel, approx. size 1.5"
This seems to be the one...
Time to find image with the above search keywords...aprox 5 minutes
total time to gather words -ideas- other false ideas---searching
flags/pins/ ect... probably 3-4 hours plus 5 minutes :)
* * * * * * * * * * *
* * * * * * * * * *
additional: it seems to me now, that the flag was not a COUNTRY flag;
which was why I could not find it because I did not expand my thinking
and my flag search idea/s... so it would seem now in retrospect to be a
Military flag??? well--I'll have to look it up and see...
google: search...
Russian Naval Flags
ok...on this page the picture of the flag with the Blue X on white
background is called a
Naval Ensign
jeff
5) [Files] Old files elementary searching - perusing old alleys of the web
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* Gametime Products present's *
* PATH-FINDer version 1.0 *
* By Lawrence Daniels *
* - Searches the PATH for files *
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
No wild cards ('*','?') or backslash ('\') in file
[Examples of possible
solutions]
example 1 example 2
Example 1
by Loki, January 2001,
www.gametime.com is unrelated.
Our program seems to have been written in DOS ( ascii art ).
The gametime name could refer to some coding group.
Search for gametime+DOS gives nothing ( some BBS respond, but too long to answer )
Why not using ftpsearch to find the whole package ?
How could it have been named ? Wich packager ?
pfinder.arj ? pfinder.rar ?
pathfinder.zip ?
pathfind.zip ?
trying the following one
http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=lycosnet&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&filetype=All+files&query=pathfind.zip&hits=10
Downloading the first one
Reading pathfind.doc
--------------------------------
* * PATHFIND version 1.0 * *
PATHFIND looks at the PATH in DOS and returns all files with the
filename that you specify.
Usage: PATHFIND filename.ext
----------------------------------
not the same ascii art ... is it another path-finder ? It's not the same name too
but :
-----------------------------
We at Gametime, have also written other programs:
Which include some fantastic CGA games, Educational software,
as well as some quite valuable utilities!
* For a computerized catalog of all available software
send: $1.00 to our mail address.
Lawrence Daniels (Sales Person)
17186 Fairfield
Detroit, Mi 48221
-----------------------------
it is the same coder !
Ok, so the given ascii in the lab is the header when u run the program :)
PATH-FINDer version 1.0 <= PATH-FIND is in caps
we're done :)
Example 2
by Loki, January 2001,
My first approach was a brutal raging search. Maybe during 5 minutes.
But the fact that the group was named Gametime create lots of noise to use this kind of approach : lots of game docs, lots of tools for rpg.
This was the (M) Mechanical mode ( using the information given on the seachal page ), queries like "Gametime Products present's" or "PATH-FINDer version 1.0"
I think that mode has the particularity to be easily coded.
The next approach uses more of our brain, the (I) Intelligence Mode.
Let's think a little, what we have is an ascii art ( -> DOS ? ), of a tool written by Lawrence Daniels ( a programmer ) in the Gametime group/company/sect.
Why not trying to find a coding team called Gametime, maybe an oldsk00l group :)
The search for gametime+dos gives some noise. Maybe the BBS related answer are interesting.
5 minutes later ... maybe it is possible to find that portion of text ( seems to be a header ==> "No wild cards ('*','?') or backslash ('\') in file" ) using the (I) mode, but the digging could be long
That let me introduce the (U) Mode ... it's a "de-mode". A little similar to the (I) one, but maybe, more organic ? Call it zen if u want :)
We need a proggy, maybe written some years ago ( few ones write dos programs in our days ). It must be on some server .. ftp one !
Okay, why not FTPSearch.
But for what ? :) Read the nomomen lessons
DOS tool, must have a readme file no ? so it must be packaged. Zip, rar, arj ?
The most common : zip. Anyway, we can make searches without firstly.
It must be a 8 letters max file.
pfinder / pafind / pathfind ?
pathfind looks the most ... real :) And it is in caps (PATH-FINDer)
I tried pathfind in first, and it was the good one.
pathfind.zip to clean the list
http://ftpsearch.lycos.com/cgi-bin/search?form=lycosnet&type=Case+insensitive+multiple+substrings+search&filetype=All+files&query=pathfind.zip&hits=10
Total time : ~15 minutes
The M, I, and U mode were taken from the GEB ( "Goedel Escher Bach an Eternal Golden Braid" ) of D. Hoffstader.
He used them to represents 3 different approach of an enigm in a formal system.
What suprised me is that the U mode IS written to be the zen approach :)
loki
Feedback, critics, suggestions, ameliorations... welcome!
[Hints for lazy searchers]
[Back to LAB 1]
[Preparing for Lab2]
(c) 1952-2032: [fravia+], all rights
reserved
